Comments on: Zeitgeist and the Threat of Dangerous, Pandemic Internet Memes.

By: aikowest0002

aikowest0002 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:06:43 +0000

By: B. Consistent

B. Consistent — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:44:33 +0000

“It is not that modern history is the invention of an esoteric cabal designing events omnipotently to suit its ends. The implicit claim, on the contrary, is that a multitude of conspiracies contend in the night. Clandestinism is not the usage of a handful of rogues, it is a formalized practice of an entire class in which a thousand hands spontaneously join. Conspiracy is the normal continuation of normal politics by normal means.”
–Carl Oglesby, President of Students for a Democratic Society,1965-1966

By: B. Consistent

B. Consistent — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:41:56 +0000

[Edited for clarity]

“Just because religion is bogus doesn’t mean Zeitgeist is correct.”

And just because Zeitgeist – or any given expression of conspiracy theories – may contain absurd and/or repugnant statements doesn’t mean any and all 9/11 doubt (much less any and all suspicion of conspiracy in general) is “pathological.”

cf. http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec30.html

Wake up.

By: B. Consistent

B. Consistent — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:33:16 +0000

“Just because religion is bogus doesn’t mean Zeitgeist is correct.”

And just because Zeitgeist – or any expression of conspiracy theories – contains absurd and/or repugnant statements doesn’t mean any and all 9/11 doubt (much less any and all suspicion of conspiracy) is “pathological.”

cf. http://www.antiwar.com/spectator/spec30.html

Wake up.

By: zaratrusta

zaratrusta — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:48:28 +0000

there are critiques you can make on zeitgeist.
there are many conspiracy theory classic cliches in it.
there’s even, ironically, a fair amount of manipulation of truth.
all of that is more or less obvious to any reasonable and informed person, so pointing the obvious is… pointless.
trying to fight it with such arguments is like trying to fight terrorism with war. rather, you have to understand where its motivation comes from, and why people are so desperate to buy into such conspiracies. THAT despair is very real, very authentic. the new millennium started out as a millennium of fear and greed, and of great disappointment towards governments and above all: a general sense that we are not governed by actual PEOPLE but soulless corporations.

that precise sense of drifting, insecurity, corruption and inhumanity is the true reason for the success of zeitgeist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_MVbK8kauM

By: Russell

Russell — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:35:12 +0000

When it comes to thinking about the possibility of there being a Wizard of Oz pulling the strings behind certain events, it’s perhaps worth reminding ourselves that Politics and Corporations are arenas that contain a disproportionate number of functioning psychopaths.

for instance: “British research suggests that up to 50 per cent of business managers could have psychopathic or similar tendencies. The study carried out by the British Psychological Society says such managers are often articulate and confident, but can be unpredictable, self indulgent and lacking in empathy. Psychology Professor Adrian Furnham says manipulative characteristics are often rewarded in the business world.

“Beware of the following individual, the good looking, educated, articulate and very bold and self confident leader,” he said. “If somebody says to you ‘I can take this company to the next level’ beware, it might be a manifestation of narcissism rather than ability.”

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/ViewContentServlet?Filename=/published/emeraldfulltextarticle/pdf/0010441009_ref.html

By: Russell

Russell — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:13:53 +0000

With regard to sources of comfort, we should also include the danger of people finding comfort in feeling superior in their beliefs. It can be especially comforting to regard “others” as simply being naive or crazy etc etc. Feeling superior is more addictive than Crack.

(By the way, I ought to add, in case anyone is making assumptions, I don’t like the Zeitgeist movie. And when it comes to events like Kennedy’s assasination or 911, the point is I just don’t know who was involved. But I do know that power corrupts people.)

By: admin

admin — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:53:56 +0000

The point that Tim makes is a very interesting, and I haven’t heard it expressed in that form: that people prefer Conspirators or personal Gods because it ironically makes the supernatural human. We create God and the Devil in our own image, if you like.

I like it, makes sense.

By: Les

Les — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:19:38 +0000

Tim–i think you make an excellent point about the dualistic impulse and how the complexity of the world is reduced to a simplistic binary of us vs. them. but in the present day context, what makes that so disturbing, as Dave points out in his original post, is that after a certain point, conspiracy theorists, or those who take them seriously, go looking for a scapegoat, someone they can blame for their problems, and, under the right conditions, say a much more serious economic downturn coupled with a humiliating political or military failure abroad that would unleash feelings of wounded national pride, then the conspiracy mentality, that “us vs. them” mindset you mention can very easily morph into a reactionary populist or semi-fascist movement. and in my humble opinion, that’s the danger, and that’s what is really at stake. and Dave is also correct when he points out that anti-semitism is on the rise and not just on the internet and that (among some other things) is always an indicator of what could be some very bad shit ahead. but, in that eventuality, we would be looking at something than just “memes.”

By: Tim Hayes

Tim Hayes — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:55:15 +0000

The “conspiracy theory,” oddly enough, seems often to be a source of comfort for those who believe in it. I say it is comforting because, for believers, “The Conspiracy” plays a role similar to that of god within theistic circles. The Conspiracy anthropomorphizes chaos by attributing agency and intentionality to that which — as you say — “self-emerges.” Certainly people conspire; certainly the powerful set certain chains of events in motion. However, to attribute to the powerful the kind of omniscient world-mastery necessary to construct and execute any of these grandiose, theory-of-everything-style conspiracies is simply delusional. The conspiracy theory believer naively seeks out Oz behind every curtain but comes up perpetually empty. In the absence of empirical data, abstruse and meandering logic is often employed as a surrogate form of validation. The believer needs The Conspiracy because it puts a human face on everything and simplifies existence into a very basic binary: us versus them. Believers in the conspiracy define themselves against the conspirators as early Christians, say, would have defined themselves against the Romans. In short, The Conspiracy creates a world of Good vs. Evil. It is The Conspiracy which brings the dualistic impulse to fruition. One understands the source of evil in the world — and it is human. This is profoundly comforting for some; it makes sense of human suffering and seems to suggest the possibility of transformation. The notion of “self-evolved viral memes” is disturbing to some because it suggests that networks of parasitism “just happen.” This is totally unsatisfying to a certain type of mind — namely, the religious mind. It is for this reason that I interpret the Conspiracy Theory (and here I’m talking about the TOE-type Conspiracy Theory) as a basically religious phenomenon. It’s another manifestation of that old human impulse that explained Job’s suffering in terms of a back-room gamble between God and Satan (or the Accuser).